Oral History Interview with Helene (Amdursky) Dinaburg, 2007-12-05

BECKY SIMMONS: The official question is, please state your name and the year you graduated from Mechanical Institute.

HELENE DINABURG: Must, must have been--'39?

BECKY SIMMONS: Yep. '39.

HELENE DINABURG: Yep. 1939. Mhmm.

BECKY SIMMONS: And and and it's Helena?

HELENE DINABURG: Helene.

BECKY SIMMONS: Just Helene Lois--?

HELENE DINABURG: Yes. Amdursky.

BECKY SIMMONS: Amdursky. Now, Dinaburg.

HELENE DINABURG: Now Dinaburg. Very much now Dinaburg. (laughter) It was his fault! (laughter)

BECKY SIMMONS: 00:00:30 Yeah!

BECKY SIMMONS: So you were talking about your, um, I guess these were monthly scholarship ratings, I guess, you said?

HELENE DINABURG: Yes. Because I, I didn't-- I wasn't there to take my final exam because of the death of my brother. [BS: Your brother?] At that time.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, my goodness.

HELENE DINABURG: And, uh. So, Mrs. Holt was very thoughtful about everything that concerned it.

BECKY SIMMONS: Mhmm. That's Georgina Holt.

HELENE DINABURG: 00:01:00 Yeah.

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah.

KATHY LINDSLEY: What was your major?

HELENE DINABURG: Food Administration. [KL: Ah!] A cooperative course. I worked at the Highland Hospital for 2 years, and I worked in, um, Brock-- uh, Lockport, up that way, too. An institution out there. Medical, uh, for, um, TB [Tuberculosis] patients, at that point. [BS: Uh-huh.] Mhm.

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah, There was a lot of TB in the '30s, right?

HELENE DINABURG: Yes. Yes. We had a big one of, 00:01:30uh, building here in Rochester that took care of them too. [KL: Yeah.] I can't remember the name. I don't know why the name "Wolk" comes to mind, but I think that was the name of the building or the hospital, as you know, the Wolk name is in Rochester---

BECKY SIMMONS: Yes. No. It's a big name. Yeah. [KL: It's still here.]

HELENE DINABURG: It's all over the place. [BS: Yeah] And this doesn't have to be, I, I don't want this on a take about the Wolks. I can tell you something about me, but you've got to turn that off. 00:02:00[KL?: I will do that.] [RECORDING PAUSED]

KATHY LINDSLEY: [RECORDING RESUMES] Yep. Okay. Now we're back to, uh, where we were started in[--oops?], and we were gonna ask you, where are you from originally, did you grow up in Rochester?

HELENE DINABURG: My parents are born in Rochester.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Really? [HD: Mhm.] So you grew up here. [HD: Mhm.] And your, and your father, you were just mentioning that he was--?

HELENE DINABURG: Chief Engineer to Taylor Instrument Company.

BECKY SIMMONS: And then he was an inventor? [HD: Yes.] Interesting.

HELENE DINABURG: He's on, 00:02:30you know, what did they give out? When they invent something?

KATHY LINDSLEY: A patent.

BECKY SIMMONS: He has a patent?

HELENE DINABURG: He yes. He has. Yeah.

BECKY SIMMONS: But multiple patents. [HD: Yeah.] I think you said. Did he go to Mechanics Institute? Where did he go to school?

HELENE DINABURG: Syracuse.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, Syracuse. You said that. Right.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So when it came time for you to go to, to college, your family encouraged you to go to Mechanics Institute? Or how did that come about?

HELENE DINABURG: It came about because my father had been sick for many years, and 00:03:00he was very fussy about food. And he figured that that would be a good place for me to go and learn how to be. So, I had no objection. I had nothing--I liked to cook and bake and that kind of stuff, but I had no particular talent. (laughter) And, uh, that's why. And it was in Rochester. Which was another thing. My mother was a, a new widow with a lost son. So, I wanted to stay home. (coughing)

KATHY LINDSLEY: 00:03:30So did, you lived at home, then, during the time that you went to Mechanics Institute?

HELENE DINABURG: I--Well, they were--I had a-- At the hospital, I, I had a room that had a, a bathroom. [KL: Mhm.] that they gave me because a lot of times, I had to be at work at 6:00 in the morning. And I'm one of those kind of people--If I had to be at 6:00, I get up at 4:30 or 5:00 to take my shower, to have my breakfast and have my cigarette, back in those days. You had to have your cigarette, and then I would go 00:04:00to work. So it was very convenient. I could be home to sleep, or I could be there to sleep, [KL: Uh-huh.] whatever I chose.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Mhmm. Now, did you spend a lot of time, or well, in a into the co-op part, so you were working at the hospital. Did you also have classes on the RIT campus downtown?

HELENE DINABURG: Mechanics Institute?

KATHY LINDSLEY: I mean, I'm sorry. Mechanics Institute.

HELENE DINABURG: Not when I was at the hospital. [KL: Oh.] No, not when I was working at the hospitals. No.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So it was back and forth.

HELENE DINABURG: When I went to classes, I just went to classes.

BECKY SIMMONS: You 00:04:30said earlier, it was like one month on [HD: That's right.] One month off. (coughing)

HELENE DINABURG: Interesting way to be. And of course, there was someone who was a coworker who took the same spots I did the alternate times that I was off. [KL: Ah.] Mhm.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So, uh, uh do you have any, memories of particular, uh, teachers that you liked a lot or that you thought were really good?

HELENE DINABURG: I thought they were all really good. And if you read my 00:05:00resume, you can tell by [reason reading it,?] that they were all very good. [KL: Mhm.] They really were. [KL: Mhm.]

HELENE DINABURG: Uh, I'm turning 90 in February.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Is that right?

HELENE DINABURG: And I found at this, uh, age, the mind doesn't grasp on to--I can think of things, I can think of songs and people and places that I, that started from the day I was born. But don't ask me what her name was that I just met yesterday.

BECKY SIMMONS: Well, I can't remember either. So. (laughter)

HELENE DINABURG: You have nothing 00:05:30good [BS: Starts early!] to look forward to. Well, mine didn't start early (laughter) Besides-- Besides my family, my husband's family, and all the organizations I belong to. My son's greatest threat was, "Mother, I'll tear up your calendar, " [KL: Oh! Oh.] Because I had so many meetings to go to. I was in so many boards and so many organizations. I had a 25- year, uh, pin from the [Bob Bay from the Red Clara?]. I was a Girl Scout leader. That's just a couple of 00:06:00the things besides the organizations. And, uh, I was very involved. [BS: Mhmm.] So the city of Rochester, which I've always loved. I think this has been a marvelous-- Are you a native Rochestarian?

BECKY SIMMONS: Upsate New York. I was born in Schenectady.

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, and you?

KATHY LINDSLEY: I'm from Cazenovia, New York, near Syracuse, but my mother's an RIT, uh, Mechanic--Well, actually, [HD: Yeah.] it turned into RIT [HD: Yes, it did. Yes, it did.] When she was there. She was in Food Administration.

HELENE DINABURG: And my, my family have been very involved and good--My grandmother founded the Jewish orphanage here. She was [unintelligible] Yes. 00:06:30And, uh--

KATHY LINDSLEY: Well, when you were growing up, what part of the city did your family live in?

HELENE DINABURG: I lived on the west side on Aberdeen Street. [BS: Oh, really?] Cause my father worked at the Taylor Instrument company [??: Right] And then I went to Number 16 school, and then Edison, and the West High School. [BS: Mhmm. Right.]

BECKY SIMMONS: That was beautiful. It's still a beautiful area [HD: Yeah. Yes.] over there. Those houses? [KL: The 19th Ward. Mhmm, mhmm] Yeah. Well, just, especially in that section, Aberdeen, and--

HELENE DINABURG: Yes. And, uh--

BECKY SIMMONS: And some of the largest, nicest...

HELENE DINABURG: Post Avenue, where the school was, but 00:07:00I think house-- I was six houses down, from where I lived. So I'd roll out and, just, um, be there.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So you went to Mechanics Institute, and you did your training while you went to school. [HD: Mhmm.] Now did you-- After you graduated, did you, um, continue right on to work? At one of those places?

HELENE DINABURG: I helped them out that summer when they were going on vacation. [KL: Mhmm.] And that was all. My husband wasn't interested in my going off to work.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Now, when did you get married?

HELENE DINABURG: Uh, Let's see. July 00:07:302nd, 1939, I think it was.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So right after school.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, right, right?

HELENE DINABURG: Yeah. Oh, yes!

KATHY LINDSLEY: Uh-huh. Now was your husband an Mechanics Institute graduate?

HELENE DINABURG: No.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Where did you meet him?

HELENE DINABURG: He was the, uh, the manager for the Dollar Dry Cleaning Company. And after, my brother--before he took sick--went to work for them. The owners of the place were friends of my mother's, so they put him in there. [KL: Mhmm.] And he used to come out to tell me that my 00:08:00brother was coming out in a few minutes, and he decided that he wanted to make it a more intimate (laughter) association, and he succeeded beautifully.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So pretty soon it wasn't. My brother-- "Your brother's coming out," but it was like, "How'd you like to go out with me?" (laughter)

HELENE DINABURG: He did. He did. (laughter)

KATHY LINDSLEY: And what was his name?

HELENE DINABURG: Saul Dinaburg.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Saul Dinaburg. [HD: Mhmm.] Okay. So--

HELENE DINABURG: When you go into the bedroom, later, you'll see pictures of him.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So you, uh, 00:08:30so you graduated and you got married and, um, you, uh. What did you--Were you able to incorporate your training into organizations or things that you did, um?

HELENE DINABURG: Ahh, It came in very handy because I have a big family. [KL: Mhmm.] And, and I enjoyed cooking and baking. And, I, uh, I wasn't afraid of any kind of a recipe, and everybody adored it. I used to have anywhere between twenty and thirty people 00:09:00with the big occasions that we would have. [KL: Mhmm.] And, I, I enjoyed (unintelligible) (coughing)

BECKY SIMMONS: So, What was the focus of the program, was it for cooking in hospitals, or?

HELENE DINABURG: Yes. Yes. Yes. Hospital. It was hospital. [BS: Mainly hospitals.] Mainly hospital. (coughing)

BECKY SIMMONS: I'm sorry.

HELENE DINABURG: That's why I, you know, I was at the Highland Hospital. [BS: Right.] And I did what I did. I cooked and I baked there, and enjoyed the doing it.

BECKY SIMMONS: And what kind of courses did they-- What was the course work specifically? 00:09:30It was-- I mean, obviously, there was cooking.

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, yes. About the values of vitamins. [BS: Right. So nutrition.] Yeah. Nutrition. Mhmm. Mhmm.

BECKY SIMMONS: Did you have to take Chemistry? Seems like I've [HD: I did. Yes, I did.] Seems like I've seen pictures in the collection.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Yeah, I was gonna say we have pictures I know of, like, um people in the food chemistry lab. [BS: Yeah.]

HELENE DINABURG: Yes. Yes, I had to take Chemistry, which was really not my forte. I think,what was it? I'm trying to think what school. Maybe 00:10:00it was in high school when I was supposed to graduate, and like the cutoff mark was sixty five, and I got a sixty five in Chemistry. (laughter)

JODY SIDLAUSKAS: Often the case.

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah. I I didn't care for it either. So were there mostly women in this, uh--

HELENE DINABURG: All women. [BS: All women.] All women.

HELENE DINABURG: There were men and boys in the school [BS: Right.] with the other programs, but no, all women. (coughing) [BS: Sorry.] And some are local, a lot of them came from the smalls. (coughing) Small towns around. [BS: Yep.] Yeah.

BECKY SIMMONS: 00:10:30How many do you think we're in your class?

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, I'd say maybe 30 or under. Yeah. And I must comment, because I never got over it: knowing that I, when I, I had my engagement ring at that point in time, and and they knew about my brother died. And before school ended, the girls in my class gave me a shower. And I was overwhelmed because we weren't--Because of the fact I lived in Rochester, 00:11:00I didn't have to go, you know, get socially involved within anybody else. But the fact that they did that really overwhelmed me. Because none of them were my personal friends at all.

BECKY SIMMONS: Right, very sweet.

HELENE DINABURG: But they did. They gave me a shower, and I never got over that.

BECKY SIMMONS: That's very nice.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Actually, I was gonna ask you about what the what students did for fun. But, of course, if you were one month on campus, and then one month [off], it probably was hard to get involved [HD: Yes. 00:11:30That's true.] in activities. So, uh, um.

HELENE DINABURG: But there are all lovely people. [BS: Yeah.] The teachers, students, they, all nice people.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Now, when you were at the hospital, were some other students there also?

HELENE DINABURG: Uh, Once in a while. Yes, yep.

BECKY SIMMONS: And you said you were at Genesee Hospital? [KL: Highland.] Highland. Becasue there was--

HELENE DINABURG: It's a lovely hospital. [BS: Yeah] Yeah.

BECKY SIMMONS: Because there was Highland. There was Genesee and then there was one on Park 00:12:00Avenue, still at that point?

HELENE DINABURG: Yes. You're right. (coughing) Yes. You're really going back. (laughter)

BECKY SIMMONS: Well, I live near it. (coughing) Sorry.

HELENE DINABURG: Would you like some water?

KATHY LINDSLEY: Do you need some water? I think--

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah. I'm getting over a cold, and it--

HELENE DINABURG: Oh. Can I get by here?

KATHY LINDSLEY: Okay.

BECKY SIMMONS: Um. We, we asked another lady that we had we talked to last week about the Depression. And if that had, you know, if that colored your time there in any way? Or...

HELENE DINABURG: 00:12:30No. Because of my father, as I said, he was Chief Engineer. [BS: Right.] Ah, And, even though he had passed away, my mother was always very comfortable. And, in those days, he was one of the few people that uh, did life insurance at that time. I remember being, my mother sending food over to the people next door, they had three kids. He had been-- The father had been the president 00:13:00of some very influential company, and they had just joined a, a golf club. Of course all that was all new golf. Back in those days, it was brand new. Not like it, not like it is today. And I remember my mother had, had a feeling she had to send food to others. [BS: Yeah.] How desperate it become at that point in time.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Your, your father had already died by the time you were in college? [HD: Yes.] Oh, dear. He died young.

HELENE DINABURG: He was forty.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Wow.

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah, 00:13:30 wow.

HELENE DINABURG: My brother was 16, I think, when he died. [KL: Oh, my gosh.] And he too, when he was in the hospital, his friends, they lined up around the hall, lining up to see him. It was very-- he founded a high school fraternity.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, yeah. What did he die of?

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, I don't know. We thought it was cancer. They called the ulcerated colitis is what they called it. [BS: Mhmm.] But I don't think they were-- 00:14:00I don't, not sure they knew about cancer. I'm talking about a long time ago.

KATHY LINDSLEY: I was going to say, back in those days--

BECKY SIMMONS: Right, [HD: Yes.] yeah.

KATHY LINDSLEY: In--Infections too. [BS: I know, I know.] that's before antibiotics.

BECKY SIMMONS: Colitis can be treated now, too. I mean, it's still terrible-- if it actually was colitis. [HD: I'm not sure--] You know, it's terrible disease, but it's [HD: Yes.] treatable.

HELENE DINABURG: But I'm not-- I always felt they just tack that name on then because they didn't know what else to do [BS: They didn't know what it was.] with it it was. [BS: Yeah.] And, uh, terrible time with eating and that kind of thing. Yeah. He, he too had founded a couple of fraternities 00:14:30at the high school, and at the temples here too. Most of my family were do-gooders, so were the community, including my own children.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So that just left you and your mother at that time?

HELENE DINABURG: No. I had anoth--I had a sister. [KL: You had a sister?] Oh, I got-- As long as I'm bragging about everything else. (Laughter) Well, this is-- [KL: Part of--] This is but, but the kind of work that my son has been doing. These are, um, against children playing with 00:15:00matches. [KL: Uh-huh.] This is one of the things. Just this is just a sample that I, that I happen to have. And this is another one of the things that my son...

KATHY LINDSLEY: Mhmm. So how many children did you have?

HELENE DINABURG: I had three.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Mhmm. And are they, they ---they a boys and girls, you know? [HD: Hmm?] Tell us what you have. How many sons and daughters?

HELENE DINABURG: I have one son and two daughters.

KATHY LINDSLEY: One son and two daughters. [HD: Yeah.] And they all live in Rochester?

HELENE DINABURG: Ah, At the moment. Yes. [KL: 00:15:30Mhmm.] Yeah.

KATHY LINDSLEY: What was it?

HELENE DINABURG: I'm trying to see.

KATHY LINDSLEY: How did he get into this kind of, uh, work That's what he decided to do. He, um. He, uh, founded the Kidney Found--my son, founded the [National] Kidney Foundation here in Rochester.

KATHY LINDSLEY: What's his name?

HELENE DINABURG: Jack Dinaburg.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Jack Dinaburg. Okay. 00:16:00[HD: Mhmm.]

HELENE DINABURG: That's his name. And, um--

KATHY LINDSLEY: Is he your oldest child? Was he your first?

HELENE DINABURG: He was my youngest.

KATHY LINDSLEY: He was your-- okay.

HELENE DINABURG: When I was pregnant with him the, my doctors turned to the nurse, said, "You'll take that baby out because if it's another girl I'm leaving town." (laughter)

HELENE DINABURG: Now, this is another part of my family. Ralph Amdursky is my 00:16:30uncle. [BS: Right] And they founded this institution.

BECKY SIMMONS: Which is?

HELENE DINABURG: You know where all the health places are? I'm not too familiar with it myself, [BS: Cerebral Palsy?] but just went, I went to a dedication, for a, a bench length. Yeah. [BS: Mhmm.] This building, where he did that.

BECKY SIMMONS: So he was--He worked with Cerebral Palsy Association?

HELENE DINABURG: 00:17:00Uh, so they worked with him. Yes. [BS: Yeah.] Yes. He didn't work for them. He graduated from Mechanics Institute.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, he did too?

KATHY LINDSLEY: Your uncle?

HELENE DINABURG: He was a fine photographer. [KL: Uh-huh.] Did you ever see the, uh, film of airplanes flying in the sky, in, in, in contest? It was a big a big with airplanes and formation. [KL: Oh, sure.] Remember seeing that?

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah.

HELENE DINABURG: Well, he got 00:17:30into a plane, and I have a film of it. He got into a plane with the door open and the plane. And took pictures of these formations. [KL: Wow.] Right now, he's just, he's a bit older than I am. He just got over heart repair work [KL: Oh, good for him] His daughter just called me yesterday to say that he had gone back to his home. [BS: Mhmm. Good.] His son was with him. [crosstalk] All of my family did something special. They weren't just relatively--real kind of people. 00:18:00[KL: Mhmm] They did something good for other people. All of them.

BECKY SIMMONS: I understand that. So when did your uncle graduate? [HD: Oh, he is so--] I'm trying to think, if you're '39.

HELENE DINABURG: If I'm gonna be, I think he's 98, if I'm not mistaken.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Wow.

BECKY SIMMONS: So he's probably eight years before you. So maybe '27? [HD: Yes.] So there was a photography program then.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Yes, a hundred years.

BECKY SIMMONS: I know. But, I mean, it really wasn't--

HELENE DINABURG: It was the first one. [BS: Right.] Yeah.

BECKY SIMMONS: I mean, 00:18:30I knew they had courses. Oh, that's great. [HD: Yes.]

KATHY LINDSLEY: So did he, did he make that his career photography? Or did he work?

HELENE DINABURG: Yes, he worked for one of the newspapers. I think it was the Democrat and Chronicle.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Look at this.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, really?

BECKY SIMMONS: Well, now, tell us his name again?

HELENE DINABURG: Ralph Amdursky.

BECKY SIMMONS: Amdurs--

KATHY LINDSLEY: How do you sp--

BECKY SIMMONS: It's on her, um, [KL: Okay. Mhmm.] A-M-D-U-R-S-K-Y.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Okay.

HELENE DINABURG: Well, as I said, and, and, of course, my son is a surprise to me. I didn't know that he had all of this kind of caring 00:19:00and wanting. The Kidney Foundation was a big thing for him.

KATHY LINDSLEY: That's huge.

HELENE DINABURG: But he had a, he had a, a friend, boy friend, who died. And there was--They didn't have anything for Kidney Foundation from those days. [BS: Right.] Yeah. That's I don't know if you remember the things they did, the, the touching [KL: Cars!] Yes. [BS: Oh, yes.] You remember that?

KATHY LINDSLEY: Yes, yes!

BECKY SIMMONS: I think they still do that. [crosstalk]

HELENE DINABURG: I used to, I used to work on that with, with 00:19:30his daughter who was was born at that time. And there were a couple of other things that he did that I was helping him with. And, you know, my sister, when it was open, they had a, a director a medical, medical director there, of course. My sister used to do the coordinating of, of volunteers [KL: Mhmm.] There. So...

KATHY LINDSLEY: They did these things as as volunteer activities? Your son got involved in this 00:20:00as a--

HELENE DINABURG: He--No. He founded it. He got the doctors on the board. He got the equipment. He has a whole, cover full of acclaimations.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So this became his full time. [HD: Yeah.] Worked then?

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, no. He was working for his father, too. [KL: Okay.] On the sidelines. (laughter)

KATHY LINDSLEY: Alright. So he was doing this totally as as a volunteer activity.

HELENE DINABURG: That was a bone of contention a lot of times, what he did with the Kidney Foundation.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Because it conflicted with his work?

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, yes. (laughter) 00:20:30Especially when we went to Florida in the winter time. (laughter)

JODY SIDLAUSKAS: Uh-huh.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So you're you're away and who's running the business, and he's working on the Kidney Foundation. Well, he did wonderful thing. That's [BS: Yeah] [HD: Oh yes, yes] That's a tremendous organization.

HELENE DINABURG: Just recently, he, he and another gentleman, uh, were awarded special awards from New York State for some of the work that they have been doing [KL; Mhmm.] for other people.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Now he's your youngest child. Tell us about your two daughters.

HELENE DINABURG: Uh, What, uh, 00:21:00what about them?

KATHY LINDSLEY: Well, they were, they were-- Did they, um, did they go on into careers, uh...

HELENE DINABURG: Uh, no, my, my, uh, my younger daughter was valedictorian of her school. [KL: Mhmm.] And my older daughter, uh, always [unintelligible] they lived, uh, moved to California. [KL: Mhmm.] So. But, uh, they, uh, they still work for organizations that they help voluntarily. [KL: Mhmm, mhmm.] Yes. [KL: Mhmm.] Yeah. 00:21:30But that came right down from our grandparents.

KATHY LINDSLEY: I guess so.

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah. [KL: Mhmm.] Yep.

BECKY SIMMONS: And you're still busy working?

HELENE DINABURG: No. Never. [crosstalk]

BECKY SIMMONS: Not so much? No.

HELENE DINABURG: No. No. No. For one thing, unfortunately, when you do get to this age, you run out of energy. (laughter)

BECKY SIMMONS: I hear you.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Well, you're entitled, but seems like you're doing great.

HELENE DINABURG: Yeah. [KL: Yeah.] Yes. The the physical 00:22:00part, I still go swimming 2 to 3 times a week, and I walk all the time. [BS: That's great.] And we have all kinds of equipment. If you have the time and you, whatever or, trip through this place, I'd love to show it to you.

KATHY LINDSLEY: And you do yoga? Did you mention that you have a, you take a yoga class?

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, yes.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Mhmm. And you can do that right here? Or do you have to go somewhere for that?

HELENE DINABURG: No. It's all in this building.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Wow. That's terrific.

HELENE DINABURG: Where, where is my-- I was gonna show you my...

BECKY SIMMONS: 00:22:30You got something over there next to you. I don't know.

HELENE DINABURG: Maybe that's it.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Oh, your calendar. [BS: Yes.] Your famous calendar.

HELENE DINABURG: Yeah. My calendar. Not, not that so much. [KL: Oh, this is the--] Now this is the summit where I live. And the things that we do. This is the people that need help in their apartment. [KL: Mhmm.] They get all their meals--See, I have a full kitchen. [KL: Mhmm.] They don't.

KATHY LINDSLEY: I see. Mhmm.

HELENE DINABURG: And this is these are some of the things that they do. Take a rough look over [crosstalk] The-- 00:23:00Our activities. [BS: There's--] that we're we're entitled to attend if we show desire.

BECKY SIMMONS: Really? Now is there a place that you can eat with the group if you decide to? [crosstalk]

HELENE DINABURG: I'll show you the main dining room. Yes. [KL: Okay. Mhmm] We get a-- We make our own tables for to be with.

BECKY SIMMONS: Yep. Is it mostly women here, or are there a good number...?

HELENE DINABURG: There are, there are men. As you can see, (papers rustling) I, I have-- [BS: Oh, look at this.]

KATHY LINDSLEY: Now, you said you've lived here for 3 years?

HELENE DINABURG: 00:23:30It would be three years next month. (papers rustling)

KATHY LINDSLEY: And where did you live before that, you lived here in Rochester?

HELENE DINABURG: Uh, yes.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Did you live in the same place for many years?

HELENE DINABURG: I live in an apartment on Highland Avenue. [BS and KL: Mhmm.]

KATHY LINDSLEY: Now when did your husband pass away?

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, a long time ago. [KL: Oh.] Yeah. But you can see I keep busy. (laughter)

BECKY SIMMONS: That's, you know, [KL: Now let's see--] that's the way to do it.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Today's Wednesday. So you have-- There's an art show 00:24:00at the JCC. [HD: Mhmm]

BECKY SIMMONS: Do you go to the JCC to the pool there?

HELENE DINABURG: No. I go to the pool here.

BECKY SIMMONS: They have a pool here, hmm. [HD: Yes.] Because I'm a member of the JCC.

HELENE DINABURG: We have gorgeous pool. [BS: Oh, yeah.] Yes.

BECKY SIMMONS: Nice.

KATHY LINDSLEY: And there's music tonight.

HELENE DINABURG: Yeah.

KATHY LINDSLEY: By Julie Ketchum.

HELENE DINABURG: All of these names, I'm not familiar. [KL: Yeah.] We signed up for our activity. [BS: Mhmm.] We have a list. [KL: Mhmm.] And we are driven to all of our appointments.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, really? You don't have to drive.

HELENE DINABURG: Ah. They took 00:24:30my car away. I just couldn't bring it along when I, they moved me in here. (laughter)

KATHY LINDSLEY: Well, you don't need it now, right? [HD: No.] That's the good thing.

HELENE DINABURG: And you can't imagine the care that these people, that take care of us. [BS: It's a nice place. Yeah.] There's a lady at the desk who leaves all of our appointments for wherever we're going. She is just-- I can't describe her. She's so wonderful. And the drivers, who have to take the walkers [KL: Mhmm.] and get the people 00:25:00onto the buses and park the walkers [BS: Mhmm.] that have to pick you up and go to Wegmans and we've come out with a hulk's crate full of groceries. [KL: Mhmm.] It's like, first, they get you packed, parked. Then they back it up. And before you turn around after they let you off, there they are with your groceries. [cross-talk [KL: It's nice.] I can't say enough good things about it.

KATHY LINDSLEY: That's nice. [BS: Yeah.] It's nice to be able to--

BECKY SIMMONS: And you don't have to worry about getting places, and...

HELENE DINABURG: 00:25:30No. [BS: No.] Socially, uh, I think, uh, I know they do--In fact, when I was here and one of my friend, when one of my friends lived here when I was still in my apartment, she used to come to play cards, and they would bring her to my apartment and pick her up when she was ready to go back, just like that.

BECKY SIMMONS: Nice.

HELENE DINABURG: Unbelievable what they do. Not only what they do is the way that they do it.

BECKY SIMMONS: Right.

HELENE DINABURG: It's so wonderful.

BECKY SIMMONS: They're respectful and they're friendly and... Yeah, 00:26:00you hear horror stories, so it's nice to know that it's a good place.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Now, you have your own kitchen, so you're cooking your meals. [HD: Yes] But if you went to the dining room, how's the food?

HELENE DINABURG: Not to be beat.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Really? That's great.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, really? It's decent. [HD: Wonderful.]

KATHY LINDSLEY: And you can appreciate, with your background, [HD: Yes.] That it's--

BECKY SIMMONS: I know really. (laughter) [KL: But it's no--] Putting a discerning eye on the institutional food?

HELENE DINABURG: I, I never make any comments, because that's, that stuff, that stuff-- [BS: You're polite!] I 00:26:30didn't have to be in charge of it. I was just a student. (laughter) I was a student.

KATHY LINDSLEY: My mother-in-law was, you know, and she's in her nineties, but she, um, when she was, uh... Before she got married, like you, she worked for a while as an x-ray technician.

HELENE DINABURG: Ah.

KATHY LINDSLEY: And I'll tell you what, every time she has to go, you know, she broke her wrist or something. She's very interested in all what they're doing and, you know, has a lot 00:27:00of comments on it and what what that technology has become. So...

HELENE DINABURG: I, It was interesting last night in-- it just it shows you the kind of people. We have something must have happened. We have a-- I'll show you the dining room, but, uh. Evidently, because of the weather, a lot of people didn't show up. And all the heads of all the different departments were serving the dinners. [BS: Oh.] Clearing the tables, pouring the coffee. They were all there at work.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Mhmm.

HELENE DINABURG: Now, I don't know how that, I 00:27:30have no idea how that happened. But it did.

KATHY LINDSLEY: I think probably people just couldn't get here so they just stayed on and took care of you. That's great. Yeah.

BECKY SIMMONS: Very Nice.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Rather than say, "I've gotta get out of here too," because, you know...

HELENE DINABURG: I have, uh, I have my own washing machine [KL: Mhmm.] And dryer. [BS: Here?] Yes. Spoiled rotten. (laughter) That's that's what we are.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Sounds the best of both worlds, though. You can take care 00:28:00of yourself--

HELENE DINABURG: My son-in-law loves the [unintelligible]. He can't wait to get here.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Oh.

HELENE DINABURG: When he found out that they, uh, cleaned the snow of the terrace [KL: Oh.] when it's snowed. And then there's a button on my telephone if I should be away for a night or two, but I do once a while I over to stay at my daughter's house. The button I just push that says welcome home. A voice says welcome home. He can't get over it. (laughter) Nice, as she said, it comes with the the territory. (laughter)

KATHY LINDSLEY: 00:28:30He's ready to move in. (laughter)

BECKY SIMMONS: That's funny.

HELENE DINABURG: Well, he started to court my daughter when he was 12 years old, so they're gonna move in together. "Not separately," she says. (laughter)

KATHY LINDSLEY: Very good. Wow. So you've known him for a long time then.

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, yes. [KL: They grew up together.] And I love him a whole bunch.

KATHY LINDSLEY: That's nice.

HELENE DINABURG: I do. I do. Both my in-laws.

HELENE DINABURG: I, I was tell you whether I shouldn't tell you all these personal stories. I would-- [BS: Well, we can--] I 00:29:00had I had fallen, and, I was--

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, you got it? [KL: Yep.] I mean, What was it like for a woman at RIT? I mean, I have to believe that a lot of women weren't going to college at that point. And, I mean, were they a special group of women? [crosstalk]

HELENE DINABURG: A lot of them, yeah, some of them came from farm, small farm countries around. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I, I went because, uh, 00:29:30it had what I wanted, and I still stayed in Rochester [BS: Right.] My mother, my mother did not want me to go away [BS: Right.] [KL: Mhmm.] Because she just lost her husband and she did, she needed me.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Now what about your friends from high school? Did many them go on to college somewhere or was that, were you fairly unusual?

HELENE DINABURG: Oh. Most of them didn't in those days.

KATHY LINDSLEY: That's what I mean.

HELENE DINABURG: Most of them didn't.

BECKY SIMMONS: They, they--

HELENE DINABURG: No. My, my, my daughter's did, you know, [KL: Mhmm.] But, but that's another generation. [BS: Right, right.] We're talking about.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Now did your mother go to college? 00:30:00[HD: No.] So, so but she wanted you to get, wanted you to get some--?

HELENE DINABURG: Well, she just knew. I mean, because of my father, it was just an accepted thing that what I got through with high school that I would go on--

BECKY SIMMONS: That you would go on. [KL: Mhmm.] I mean, were p--Did women, I mean--Women went to RIT, went to the Mechanics Institute, but did-- do you think most of them went on to work their whole lives, or did they do what you did and just...? [HD: I can't answer that] Marry and, you know...

HELENE DINABURG: Becuase most of them didn't come from 00:30:30Rochester. [BS: Right, came from elsewhere.] Most were from small towns, and they weren't pe--Now, you know, at our 50th reunion, uh, we were all so happy to see each other, you know? And I was in charge of the foods, for the reunion. [BS: Oh, nice.] Naturally. And, uh it, it, it was a fun time. I wish I could have found those pictures because my whole class was there. It's under my bed and it's too much trouble to pull out. [BS: Yeah, yeah.] [KL: That's okay.]

KATHY LINDSLEY: Well, when did you, uh not when, but, um, your 50th 00:31:00reunion, um, where did they have that, uh, event?

HELENE DINABURG: I, I'm trying to think. Um, I think that is was at RIT, if I have not mistaken.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Yeah. That makes sense. [HD: I think it was.] Oh, very nice you got to go to that.

HELENE DINABURG: They had a lot of different reunions and for different things there. [KL: Mhmm.]

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, they do that every year.

HELENE DINABURG: I remember once they had a a beautiful, wonderful orchestra for dancing in the party. Yeah. And I think it was that RIT when 00:31:30after it had opened with all the--

KATHY LINDSLEY: Mhmm. After the, after the new campus [HD: Yeah.] opened. Mhmm.

KATHY LINDSLEY: So you'd have been up to the new campus.

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, yes. I've been there. Yes. They have, they-- Anything that comes out of RIT comes into my apartment.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Sure.

BECKY SIMMONS: Oh, believe me.

HELENE DINABURG: Any-- And I can't believe what goes on.

KATHY LINDSLEY: I was gonna ask you that if you've been amazed at how-- [BS: Much it's grown?]

HELENE DINABURG: That school is unbelievable. The honors from all over the world 00:32:00that they get because of the work they do. [KL: Mhmm.] And I remember when I, I told you I worked for the, Red Cross. I would come here, for the, uh, hearing and affected people to get blood. [KL: Sure.] [BS: Uh-huh.] [KL: Oh, sure.] And, uh. They had [unintelligible]. [KL: Right.] For the most time, they had to write down what, what they do. [KL: Right.] I had to write what I wanted them to do. But what a job they did.

BECKY SIMMONS: 00:32:30 Yeah.

HELENE DINABURG: Unbelievable.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Right. The, the whole, uh, aspect of the National Technical Institute for the Deaf. [HD: Oh!] It's just phenomenal.

HELENE DINABURG: It's worldwide. [KL: Yeah.] [BS: Yeah. Truely.] As I said, any literature that comes that RIT, comes to my house.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Mhmm. [BS: Yeah.] Now when you were going to Mechanics Institute, you probably never could have imagined what RIT--

HELENE DINABURG: Oh, no. Like I taught-- I always, I repeat, the big barrels to collect the water when it rained at Mechanics-- 00:33:00Where I went. (laughter)

BECKY SIMMONS: But what were they doing with the water? They were using it to wash dishes or something?

HELENE DINABURG: I have--The water, I don't know what they did, [KL: But like--] They didn't want it to flood all over [KL: I was gonna say because--] the floor [BS: Right.] where the desks were [KL: This is because the roofs were leaking, you mean?] or the tables and everything.

KATHY LINDSLEY: They had barrels because the roofs were leaking. (laughter)

BECKY SIMMONS: What building did you have your class is in? Was it the Eastman building? There were really only 3 buildings at that point.

HELENE DINABURG: I think it was mainly the Eastman building. 00:33:30Yeah. [BS: Right.] And, um, there had to be a place where there was a kitchen and a dining room. Because they some of the students ate there.

BECKY SIMMONS: Right. No. There-- I know there was a place to eat there.

HELENE DINABURG: Yeah. I really don't remember in detail.

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah.

HELENE DINABURG: I remember liking all my teachers, you know, they were all nice.

BECKY SIMMONS: And competent, smart?

HELENE DINABURG: Yes. [BS: Yeah.] There was a new group that came in being that they got 00:34:00in from, uh, colleges, younger people. Because when I first got that there were a lot older than I, a lot older. (laughter) [KL: The teachers?] But the-- Yes, they were teachers. And, uh, the new ones, they they came and livened things up a little, you know.

BECKY SIMMONS: Did you know the president at all, Mark Ellingston?

HELENE DINABURG: As I said, I had the, his picture is probably, under my bed. [BS: Right.] Yes, with his wife was there at this 50th reunion.

BECKY SIMMONS: Right.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Oh, of 00:34:30course. [crosstalk]

HELENE DINABURG: And I had met him. I didn't know him personally. Uh, there was a philosophy teacher that, that I had, that I happened to like because he thought, he liked the way I thought. (laughter) And, um. There was, yeah, there were a couple of other women teachers that I liked. [KL: Uh-huh.]

BECKY SIMMONS: So you were also taking some more traditional liberal art classes [HD: Oh, yeah.] at the same time. [HD: Yeah.] English and philosophy, and.. [HD: Yes, yes, right.]

KATHY LINDSLEY: 00:35:00Did you think that the classes that the program that you were in was hard? Was it, did it take a hard-- Was it a lot of work? To go through the classes and--

HELENE DINABURG: Well, I enjoyed what I did. That, then you don't think it's hard [BS: Right.] And as a lot of work. I enjoyed everything that I did there.

KATHY LINDSLEY: That's great.

HELENE DINABURG: Yeah. I enjoyed the teachers. I enjoyed the materials. I was interested in what I was doing.

KATHY LINDSLEY: That makes all the difference.

HELENE DINABURG: Having seen what harm I can do and how good it can be.

BECKY SIMMONS: 00:35:30Oh, yeah. Here's philosophy. Yeah. It's financial operations, institutional administration, bacteriology.

HELENE DINABURG: Yeah.

BECKY SIMMONS: Catering, diet, and disease.

HELENE DINABURG: So you see the--

BECKY SIMMONS: It's a broad range of... [HD: Yes, yes.]

KATHY LINDSLEY: Classes.

HELENE DINABURG: And the teachers were excellent. They truly were.

BECKY SIMMONS: Mhmm.

HELENE DINABURG: Some of them had been there before I was born. (laughter) [BS: Yeah] But there was a new group that came in along the way.

BECKY SIMMONS: Was the 00:36:00Domestic Science Program still around in those days?

HELENE DINABURG: I can't answer that.

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah. I mean, there was a program for many years where they kind of taught women how to be good housewives. But I think by the 30s, it was pretty much [HD: I don't--] You don't rem-- Yeah.

KATHY LINDSLEY: Work oriented?

BECKY SIMMONS: Yeah. [KL: Mhmm.] Well, anything else? Any stories? You know, one lady last week told us she used to dance at lunch. They used to play records. [HD: Oh] That she would, she and her husband to-be with dance.

HELENE DINABURG: 00:36:30 Oh!

KATHY LINDSLEY: Because her husband went to RIT. [BS: Yeah.] Or Mechanics Institute.

BECKY SIMMONS: They met there. No dances for you?

HELENE DINABURG: No. Not, Not at there. (laughter) [BS: Right.] He already had me by then. (laughter)

HELENE DINABURG: Come, I'll show you some more [BS: Alright.] pictures in my bedroom.

KATHY LINDSLEY: I'm gonna hit the stop button. Where is--?

BECKY SIMMONS: Well, thank you very much. [RECORDING STOPS]